Trump: Whiny Loser or Mad Genius?

[stripfan]

Free Speech is never 100% “Free”. Statements that are dangerous and false are not protected. The example given inside yelling “fire” in a crowded theatre is not protected by the First Amendment.

The internet should never be completely open. By that, some things should not be allowed to be shown or discussed, namely things like child pornography or ISIS beheading captured westerners. The difficulty will be determining where to set the dial on the level of freedom or control.

Fuck u. I think the reason you don't like free speech is that you know you can't win any open debates. You are either a commie or an ISIS type.

 

[Hornet]

Fuck u. I think the reason you don't like free speech is that you know you can't win any open debates. You are either a commie or an ISIS type.

You are just another complete fucking idiot like Altaguetta that is so brainwashed by the alt-right you won’t even listen to a counter argument. Nowhere did I say I don’t like free speech, that’s all in your head. If you actually objectively read my statement I said I don’t think Child pornography or ISIS beheadings should be given any platform or protection under Free Speech. You countering that indicates you are either too stupid to read or you are thereby actually taking a position in support of child pornography and ISIS beheadings because you think that content should not have any limits imposed on them.

Civics classes in the US uses that yelling fire example all the time to indicate there are limits on what is protected under Free Speech. That is not protected which means there is no such thing as 100% free speech.

Free speech will never allow 100% of content. There needs to be exceptions that are not given a platform and I gave 2 of them that I would bet the majority of society would agree with. Whether that means we achieve 99% Free Speech or 98% Free Speech is the dial I was referring too.

General laws such as Defamation Laws can supersede Freedom of Speech. If you say something not true about someone to hurt their honour or reputation they can sue for defamation. If Free speech was 100% free then anyone can say anything and the ability to sue for defamation would not exist.

Reasonable limits based on the greater good of society have to be set and lines drawn somewhere. It’s the same logic as driving having limits for safety reasons where there are speed limits, stoplights, impairment laws, age limits, vision requirements and seatbelts.

Here are exceptions to the First Amendment. Once you have one exception, 100% Free Speech is no longer achievable.

https://www.lawyers.com/legal-info/criminal/its-ok-to-speak-your-mind-but-dont-hurt-anyone.html

 

[snoopdoggie]

Fuck u. I think the reason you don't like free speech is that you know you can't win any open debates. You are either a commie or an ISIS type.

He didn't say he doesn't like free speech.
He's saying we have free speech, but within limits.
It's the same as saying that women in Ontario are allowed to be topless. But it should be done appropriately.

 

[Hornet]

He didn't say he doesn't like free speech.
He's saying we have free speech, but within limits.
It's the same as saying that women in Ontario are allowed to be topless. But it should be done appropriately.

Yes, 80 year old grandmas with knee knockers should be covered up.

 

[Magicmon]

Odds something happens Wednesday? Since the starters are now on the field lol

 

[Hornet]

Odds something happens Wednesday? Since the starters are now on the field lol

Odds are good that one of these alt-right domestic terrorist organizations does something somewhere. Might not be in Washington but could be in some State Capital and it might only be some run ins with riot police with throwing rocks countered by tear gas rather than something more violent that people are worrying about.

 

[sy barite]

Hopefully it will be some consolation to know Twitter is not happy about this state of affairs either, and CEO Jack Dorsey – whose philosophical outlook on the matter is similar to your own – feels he was railroaded into a place he never wanted to go to by Trump...

Twitter banned Trump forever... And it brought to an end an era of free speech online that Twitter — which a senior executive once referred to as “the free speech wing of the free speech party” — had itself helped create.... Billionaire Twitter CEO and founder Jack Dorsey wasn’t celebrating the moment. He lamented what the decision meant for the vision of an open Internet that he and his Silicon Valley peers shared when they sought to build a new type of microblogging service 15 years ago. While necessary for public safety, he said it would be “destructive to the noble purpose and ideals of the open Internet” over the long term...

Until recently, the company was so reluctant to police content that it only put into place a formal misinformation policy last year.... Public figures were so important to Twitter that, like Facebook, the company long gave them a newsworthiness exemption. They were allowed to say things that would be considered to be policy violations if uttered by everyday users, on the grounds that what these people said was in the public interest. Twitter, and Dorsey in particular, long maintained that even the worst lies should be corrected with more speech rather than removing them. It was Twitter’s responsibility to show “how global leaders think and treat the people around them,” he said. But Twitter came under more and more pressure as the Trump presidency wore on....

For years, he and Twitter had benefited immensely from being at the center of conversations, the public square where news happened. Now, a dangerous precedent was set, he said, in that people were retreating from the public square even further. Dialogues across different viewpoints would be even less possible, and technology companies were becoming even more powerful than governments. That the company had to ban Trump, he felt, was a failure of his service to maintain civil discourse, perhaps existentially.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/16/how-twitter-banned-trump/

----

In a lengthy philosophical tweetstorm, Twitter chief executive Jack Dorsey said he took no pride in the decision to remove President Trump’s account from the service last week, describing the decision as a “failure” to ultimately create a service that could sustain civil discourse and healthy conversations... “This moment in time might call for this dynamic, but over the long term it will be destructive to the noble purpose and ideals of the open internet,” he wrote....

Dorsey, along with Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, is a strong proponent of building platforms that can encompass as many voices as possible. That latitude and pro-free speech stance was extended even further with politicians. Twitter — like Facebook — has long given exemptions to public figures regarding their hate speech policies on the grounds that what they said was newsworthy and worthy of public debate. The decisions last week, to effectively silence those voices, Dorsey pointed out, would have huge ramifications.

“They limit the potential for clarification, redemption, and learning,” he wrote. “And sets a precedent I feel is dangerous: the power an individual or corporation has over a part of the global public conversation.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/13/twitter-trump-ban/

To put it mildly I am skeptical of Dorsey being in agreement with me when it comes to free speech. Just yesterday I heard him say on a taped conversation that Trump's banning will only be the first of many and that the campaign to ban accounts found to make people "feel unsafe" will continue for a long while. We are talking about a man who gifted $10 million to Ibrahim Kendi. He has "apologized" several times for accidental or over zealous banning's, but those just keep overwhelmingly happening to conservatives. Saying sex determines gender will get you banned, but saying the inherent problem in our society is "whiteness" or "toxic masculinity" gets you celebrated. No, Jack Dorsey most definitely does not share my views of free speech.

Look, I've already agreed that Trump is a fool, that he said irresponsible things, that he does not deserve to hold office, but can you quote me what the man said that called for violence or a take over of the government by force? Twitter banned him and he was impeached a second time for made up nonsense. I can point you to dozens, if not hundreds of statements made this year alone by Democrats and their supporters that much more clearly advocate violence or rioting, and no one in the media uttered a peep. The double standard is glaring and being inflicted on fully half the voters of the country. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Magicmon]

Odds are good that one of these alt-right domestic terrorist organizations does something somewhere. Might not be in Washington but could be in some State Capital and it might only be some run ins with riot police with throwing rocks countered by tear gas rather than something more violent that people are worrying about.

I am conflicted on whether I would be surprised to see this happen. The starters are on the field now. Are those people dumb enough to have a shootout with the national guard for trump?

One thing is for certain. America is screwed. That riot is only the first of many that will happen during Biden’s presidency.

 

[Hornet]

I am conflicted on whether I would be surprised to see this happen. The starters are on the field now. Are those people dumb enough to have a shootout with the national guard for trump?

One thing is for certain. America is screwed. That riot is only the first of many that will happen during Biden’s presidency.

The law enforcement agencies identified internet chatter indicating there could be protests at all 50 State Capitals. If true I think the odds of some idiots doing something in one of them is high. But, I think the likelihood of something happening near the inauguration is very remote due to National Guard presence.

 

[Magicmon]

The law enforcement agencies identified internet chatter indicating there could be protests at all 50 State Capitals. If true I think the odds of some idiots doing something in one of them is high. But, I think the likelihood of something happening near the inauguration is very remote due to National Guard presence.

Oh yes I have read about that. I did not take it seriously because I am doubting anyone is really foolish enough to try something because they are going to protect areas throughout America. FBI also claimed there might be caravans blocking certain roads in DC. If those people even dared to try that they will get mowed down by machines guns.

After the riot I think most of them realized if they do something they are fucked. Their lives with be fucked. Some of them already committed suicide once they found out the FBI is after them. The crazy horn guy is currently in jail until his court date. There is a number of videos of people crying in airports because they were put in the no fly list. It will be funny tomorrow when we all see that trump didn’t pardon any of them.

 

[Hornet]

Oh yes I have read about that. I did not take it seriously because I am doubting anyone is really foolish enough to try something because they are going to protect areas throughout America. FBI also claimed there might be caravans blocking certain roads in DC. If those people even dared to try that they will get mowed down by machines guns.

After the riot I think most of them realized if they do something they are fucked. Their lives with be fucked. Some of them already committed suicide once they found out the FBI is after them. The crazy horn guy is currently in jail until his court date. There is a number of videos of people crying in airports because they were put in the no fly list. It will be funny tomorrow when we all see that trump didn’t pardon any of them.

The crazy horn guy is a QANON Shaman and wanted Trump to pardon him. Trump won’t be able to pardon anyone for anything that happens on Wednesday because he’ll already be out of office. The Constitution doesn’t give pardon powers to former Presidents, only to the current sitting President.

 

[Magicmon]

The crazy horn guy is a QANON Shaman and wanted Trump to pardon him. Trump won’t be able to pardon anyone for anything that happens on Wednesday because he’ll already be out of office. The Constitution doesn’t give pardon powers to former Presidents, only to the current sitting President.

He doesn’t give a shit about any of them which is the amusing thing about all of this.

Plus there have been multiple reports that the people that are going to get the pardon have or will pay him lots of money for it. None of the people that rioted can afford it. He is going to pardon a bunch of white collar criminals and celebs who can afford his price.

 

[Hornet]

He doesn’t give a shit about any of them which is the amusing thing about all of this.

Plus there have been multiple reports that the people that are going to get the pardon have or will pay him lots of money for it. None of the people that rioted can afford it. He is going to pardon a bunch of white collar criminals and celebs who can afford his price.

What are the odds that Joe Exotic gets a pardon tomorrow

 

[Magicmon]

What are the odds that Joe Exotic gets a pardon tomorrow

hahaha I really want that to happen.

 

[Magicmon]

Well Trump basically just shat on his supporters and pardoned Bannon. The guy who swindled their donation money. If that doesn’t wake a lot of them up then they are just blind. Then again, they donated money to building a wall. Something Trump promised Mexico would build.

 

[Deleted member 64273]

I wonder how much money Trump made with all these last minute pardons and commutations. Well, at least his presidency is finally over. What a horrible 4 years that was! And he's going out not with a bang but with a whimper.

 

[Magicmon]

I wonder how much money Trump made with all these last minute pardons and commutations. Well, at least his presidency is finally over. What a horrible 4 years that was! And he's going out not with a bang but with a whimper.

Rumour has it. it costs 2 million and above. So a lot but not enough to pay off his debts and future lawsuits that are coming.

 

[kittyhound69]

Bother. He’s made more than a hundred million $ from his bullshit fund for stop the steel election defence fund. He will be charged but under states laws soon because he’s not covered under anything, even if he gave him self a pardon, good riddance he’s gone.
the senate my not impeach him but guaranteed they will ban him from holding any political office. All they need is a simple majority, 50% plus 1. Haha fucking douche he is

 

[Hornet]

Rumour has it. it costs 2 million and above. So a lot but not enough to pay off his debts and future lawsuits that are coming.

It’s enough to reimburse Michael Cohen the $130,000 for paying off Stormy Daniels though.

 

[Sybarite]

...good riddance he’s gone. the senate my not impeach him but guaranteed they will ban him from holding any political office. All they need is a simple majority, 50% plus 1. Haha fucking douche he is

Unfortunately it's far from guaranteed. If the Senate doesn't convict Trump first then they can't bar him from holding political office again.

Convicting Trump will take a supermajority, which means 17 GOP senators will have to join all 50 Dem senators to impeach Trump. Only after they clear that very high bar can they vote on barring Trump from ever holding public office again, and that vote only requires a 50% plus 1 majority, but given the last impeachment and current political realities it could be very difficult to succeed with the prerequisite supermajority impeachment conviction required first.

Still, GOP Senate majority leader McConnell flat out said yesterday Trump was directly responsible for inciting the mob, so that was an interesting development.